tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post7533167423416175726..comments2024-03-17T18:41:00.382-03:00Comments on Patagonian monsters: mtDNA C1 haplogroup in Europe a Post Script (The X2a hg)AWhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11389280995003336103noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-65643797385901099602022-07-17T17:32:42.923-03:002022-07-17T17:32:42.923-03:00I find your arrow on your map rather strange. It ...I find your arrow on your map rather strange. It shows Haplogroup X coming through the Bering Straits and going into the Great Lakes area with no evidence of the group existing across the western US. I have seen much evidence for the Haplogroup X sailing across the Atlantic, but these people came about 2500 BC and 600 BC. The Phoenicians shipping tin from England into the Lake Michigan area to trade for Copper as far back as 2600 BC. We know this to be the case because sunken Phoenician ships have been found loading with Michigan copper. The bronze in Europe was made mostly from Michigan copper. We have found piles of slag where ancient Americans were smelting copper and tin to make hardened copper tools. The kilns have been found with ax heads still in the mold and these were all pre-Columbian artifacts. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-16456986267201239112015-07-14T22:37:12.471-03:002015-07-14T22:37:12.471-03:00Try this page: https://www.familytreedna.com/group...Try this page: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/basque-dna/about/results<br />it may be interesting. Also check this post, which shows how widely dispersed C hg. was and is!<br />http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com.ar/2014/06/mtdna-c1-haplogroup-and-neanderthals.html<br />AWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11389280995003336103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-26386469086400846652015-07-04T20:42:53.003-03:002015-07-04T20:42:53.003-03:00Very interesting research! I just discovered that ...Very interesting research! I just discovered that I belong to C1b, I was born in Cuba from Spanish ancestors, not American Indians. I have documented Basque ancestry. Many civilizations passed through Spain... I'm awaiting the results of a relative from Spain... My ancestors had not been to the Americas. Pondering about the interpretation of results... What is the haplogroup of the Basques?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-43144822774249824722014-06-17T08:36:01.811-03:002014-06-17T08:36:01.811-03:00Well, I'm not a geneticist, but shouldn't ...Well, I'm not a geneticist, but shouldn't they have the X2a instead of the northern ones? If the Neanders have stayed in the north and X2a is one haplogroup of theirs, why isn't the northern to have the most of their dna?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-71045602290879724532014-06-16T19:28:29.797-03:002014-06-16T19:28:29.797-03:00Thanks German. I was looking at the trees the othe...Thanks German. I was looking at the trees the other day and noticed quite a few recurrent mutations in different haplogroups. <br />They happen time and time again. This may either mean that the trees are wrongly structured and they place in the "branches" markers that should be closer to the "roots" or that in fact the mutation rate is not "neutral" and happening by chance. This raises serious doubts on the accuracy of dating based on mutation rates.AWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11389280995003336103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-49990346171881032272014-06-16T19:26:11.619-03:002014-06-16T19:26:11.619-03:00The idea behind these "genetic" anthropo...The idea behind these "genetic" anthropology posts is to find proof that Neanderthals or H. erectus peopled America long ago and are the root or source of myths regarding Wild Men among Native Americans.AWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11389280995003336103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-78090163168579400542014-06-16T19:25:10.553-03:002014-06-16T19:25:10.553-03:00Yes, see my post on that: http://patagoniamonsters...Yes, see my post on that: http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com.ar/2013/12/diabetes-neanderthals-and-modern-latinos.htmlAWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11389280995003336103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-78690667446378849602014-06-16T13:56:42.970-03:002014-06-16T13:56:42.970-03:00Also, isn't the Latin American natives with th...Also, isn't the Latin American natives with the highest rates of Neanderthal DNA and even their physical traits?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-43671194902629200212014-06-16T11:21:42.489-03:002014-06-16T11:21:42.489-03:00Mmmm, what about your 'wild men' of South ...Mmmm, what about your 'wild men' of South America?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-1596772921326605672014-06-16T09:42:05.477-03:002014-06-16T09:42:05.477-03:00If one looks at PhyloTree (http://www.phylotree.or...If one looks at PhyloTree (http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_N.htm), one can notice that hg X1 is defined through a double back mutation (T16278C!!), while hg X2 maintains the single back mutation C16278T! from the X stem. Now, PhyloTree often confuses ancestral and derived states. Denisova and Neandertal agrees with stem X and X2 in having T at 16278, so it's 16278C on L3'4 that must be derived, while X/X2 are ancestral. This and a number of other inconsistencies make me question the accuracy of the current hg X phylogeny. T146C! is another pseudo-reverse mutation that defines the "clade" X1'3. X1'2'3 is defined by PhyloTree by the recurrent A153G mutation, which shouldn't be diagnostic.<br /><br />So, hg X as a Neandertal by origin, or a haplogroup as old as Neandertals is not a far-fetched possibility.German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8137409915847697670.post-6692880403012865192014-06-14T22:49:17.718-03:002014-06-14T22:49:17.718-03:00Austin,
After reading this post, I have realise...Austin, <br /><br /> After reading this post, I have realised that your theory of this connection between neanderthal and Hg x, intersects some ideas I have had rattling around. <br /><br /> Of the native Americans mentioned as having Hg x, 2 are salmon fishing people, one was lakeside tribe. <br /><br /> Hg x is found in georgia. <br /><br />This article talks about evidence that Neanderthal were fishing for salmon in Georgia, 40k years ago. <br /><br /> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130917090125.htm <br /><br /> Hg x is found in Neolithic northern europeans, and Neolithic northern Europeans were prolific salmon fishermen. <br /><br /> In Scotland, the early inhabitants were salmon fishermen, and Hg x is found on the Orkneys, were original population was isolated to. <br /><br /> <br /><br /> You mention the sangamonian timing of this movement, it's in the sangamonian that the west Siberian glacial lake reaches it's greatest extent. From the black sea all the way to the yenisei river valley this vast inland lake system would have provided a consistent lifeway path across Asia. <br /><br /> The contested site at valsequillo, gives dates in the sangamonian, and it is a region of natural lakes. <br /><br /> The many of the oldest sites, and usually contested , in the western US are on lake shores. The Witt site, that has animal remains dating back 60k years, was characterised as "fishing camp of great antiquity"<br /><br /> Could your proposed new world neanderthals have been a group of fisherman that were following the fish.<br /><br /> They followed the west Siberian lake east, then followed the rivers towards beringia, the followed the canadian glacial lakes towards the great lakes.<br /><br /> I can't help but notice that the Hg x distribution roughly correlates to major river systems that penetrate the interiors of north America europe and Africa.<br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br />cevin qnoreply@blogger.com